Curse

lyra_song · Oct 30, 2007, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Haha, you're comparing stuff like fame to shit like LB. It's obvious you have no idea whatsoever what's going on, but maybe you'll get someday. To help you, I prepared 2 questions. Does higher Hero rank make your skills better? And does higher [Lightbringer/Asura/Norn/Ebon Vanguar/Sunspear] make your skills better?

yar, pretty obvious.

The only thing obvious is your lack of tact in your presumptuous attitude.

Your two questions:
1) Actually, in an indirect way, yes. It makes you the player, better. Playing Tombs, i mean HA, is a good way to learn about the maps, increase your knowledge of how players behave in PvP, what skills work, which ones dont, what type of classes to avoid, what type of skill combos to lookout for, etc. One problem with rank is inaccuracy, seeing as you cant tell if the player gained rank through specific class functions (a rank 3 warrior cannot equate to a rank 3 monk), or if it was during double fame, or if it was through good victories or fluke wins, etc. Its not analog. Properly earning rank, through victories, and even not earning rank, teaches a player who is in tune with what to do and not to do to win in Halls.

2) Yes

I would say grinding for hero does a lot more for you than grinding for PvE titles. But thats my opinion of course.

My question:
Do you need to grind either of those? No.

I never grinded Lightbringer until I was at gate of madness, and only because I wanted to level all my heroes to 20. The lightbringer/ss was just a nice bonus to leveling up my heroes. Kill 3 birds with one stone. Lightbringer, SS and Level my heroes. Even then my LB rank is only 5, and i beat the game without any trouble....

And you can certainly play Halls without any rank whatsoever. Grab some friends and do it. Theres no "must be this tall for this ride" limit.

Age · Oct 30, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

I would like to see more things account based as well.

bilateralrope · Oct 31, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

I have 4 millions GW players backing me up who isn't complaining about the way the game is now as oppose to you theres 1 and (rough estimate of person signing this) maybe 20 other who think they should have all the title for free.

1 - Please backup this 4 million players number. All I'm aware of is ANET announcing 4 million copies sold across the 3 chapters, without saying how many were merged. If you have any better information please show it.

2 - How can you be certain of how a player feels about this when they haven't said anything either way ?
What about the people who don't know about this thread because they don't visit guru at all ?

Quote:

players simply don't care about what title other people wear is not an indication that ANET should make all grind base title account wide.

True. But I was bringing it up to show that the titles don't hold much value as it is because most people don't care. And since the titles don't hold much value now, they won't be devalued much.

Quote:

there you go again with your FACTS, its not facts its your (lame) support materials.

And your supporting data is what exactly ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

When they made there character they knew that if they want an unnissicarly (spelling) rank in a title based on grind chances are they'd have to grind if they were very determined.

I made 5 of my characters before Nightfall came out, so how should I of known about having to grind for stat boosts when I made them ?

Quote:

FAiled gyala around 13 times when i first got there mostly due ot pugs... many people failed GoM,GoP Raisu and Hells many times and were sick of it (luckily got ot past em on 2nd try), These missions take 20 min each, and are Mandatory to continue with the story.

They are also measures of skill. If your team isn't skilled enough you can't pass them until you get a team with enough skill.

Quote:

I Finished NF with rank 6 LB, and Gwen with rank 3 or somthing like that in deldrimir, titles are not nessicary, you can complete the games grand without them, if you find that spending 5+ Hours or more will make a massive differance to 2 hours of the campaign left by all means go for it, it is a completly optional title that gives a tiny reward, i'm rank 5(/10) by just doign the campaign and maybe 4 dungeons

Sure they aren't necessary for you. But how does your level of skill compare to that of the average player ?
What about HM ?

Quote:

if 4 people had fow (a more or less grind based armour,unless your lucky) that'd be impessive, but if 9 had it, thats +125% increase in the amount of peopel with FoW, so not as impressive as before.

Except that the thread I linked to is saying that people aren't really impressed by another persons titles now, so there isn't much impression that can be lost.

Quote:

If other people dont liek my title grand, but its what i think of it that matters,only i know what i went through to get it. i.e. when i fisrt saw rank3 bambi i tought woah, i must get that, in the next few days i saw a ton of peopel spamming it so it diluted the value a bit, also i suck at pvp as i figured out..but i tried HA well after that tho.

Which of the titles being effected here have actually impressed you when you saw them on another character ?

What ranks did they have to get before you were impressed ?

Do they still impress you when you see them ?

Quote:

yeah if they increased the amount of points per title i would feel it is just (as i sad early in thread) But finding the new max limit would be a prob, i would think maybe 500,000 to max for account,(thats maxing it on 2 chars?) but seeing as i havent played in 3 weeks due to tech probs my view of the title is distorted and would be inaccurate as i have no idea of the work that goes into the title now, would 100,000 LB points be alot for account wide title?

This thread suggests that the points you need for each rank should change depending on how many PvE characters you have. It would probably be better if they don't count until they are past a specific point so your mules/perma-pres don't hurt you. Personally I'm leaving it up to ANET to decide how much the ranks will be scaled by.

Quote:

and what effects would it have of BoaBD?

I'm going to assume you mistyped and meant KoaBD here, since I can't see what BoaBD means. If I'm wrong then correct me.

All I can see happening is that a lot of people who grind titles will get the first two ranks on all their characters. If the non-stat titles remain character based, then the title grinders will have all their characters 2 titles away from KoaBD 2. If only the combat-stat titles get changed, they will have all their characters 4 titles away from KoaBD.

So if your looking, you will see a lot more characters with KoaBD 1 or 2 running around and those few people that care now will stop caring about the lower ranks.

Tempy · Oct 31, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

You wouldnt know if a player earned it themselves or simply has 5 titles maxed from a different char.

The PLAYER did EARN it!!! And the PLAYER, plays all CHARACTERS on the ACCOUNT. (most of the time)

Solas · Oct 31, 2007, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

I made 5 of my characters before Nightfall came out, so how should I of known about having to grind for stat boosts when I made them ?

Yes,But do you really need those 5 to have the title maxed? wouldn't R5 be good?

Quote:

They are also measures of skill. If your team isn't skilled enough you can't pass them until you get a team with enough skill.

Got through it with henchmen, learned my lesson then and havent pugged since bar1 time. i see where your coming form but a nice portion of GW can be C-Spaced, missions,explorables so forth, so with 8 chars goign through a campaign at roughly same time (jsut created em all) it does seem grinding to me,alot of the time i'm on the internet,c-spacing (not sure if thats the proper word, shortcut keys for clostet target + attack) with unruned heros+ henchmen.btw thats form kamadan->Gate of pain, havent tried GoM yet tho nor any others with the new chars. wheres the skill there?

Quote:

Sure they aren't necessary for you. But how does your level of skill compare to that of the average player ?
What about HM ?

not sure what the average players skill level is, may be around mine,less or greater.
in HM i'm not sure if they are nessicary but they are very helpful,nearly a must maybe, dont need to be maxed tho.

Quote:

Except that the thread I linked to is saying that people aren't really impressed by another persons titles now, so there isn't much impression that can be lost.

Most of the replies said titles didn't matter in pugs?
reason coudl be all titles on main,that char was an alt.
some peopel don't collect titles but are still skilled etc.

But if i work hard for a week or 2 for a title what ever it may be wouldn't you feel sad that alot more popel have it? the cartographer thread is a nice example about how rare a title used be and how popular it is currently and thus how its value decreased for the holder.http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10213510

Quote:

Which of the titles being effected here have actually impressed you when you saw them on another character ?

rank 3 impressed me greatly but then i saw alot more as time passed by..alot more...also cartographer

when i first saw maxed sunspear on the X2 weekend i was like woah,nice but as time moved on it began to seem less, this is only 1 char per account more or less, if everyone had it as there newbie default title for there char it would seem worthless to me.

Quote:

What ranks did they have to get before you were impressed ?

rank 10, rank 3 for fame, max cart

Quote:

Do they still impress you when you see them ?

alot more peopel have them as time passes by

Quote:

This thread suggests that the points you need for each rank should change depending on how many PvE characters you have. It would probably be better if they don't count until they are past a specific point so your mules/perma-pres don't hurt you. Personally I'm leaving it up to ANET to decide how much the ranks will be scaled by.

yes that is nice but why should i be penalised because i have a few chars, when i never intended or wanted to get them passed a small rank in the title, not maxing them out. as i want to complete all campaign with a few chars.

Quote:

I'm going to assume you mistyped and meant KoaBD here, since I can't see what BoaBD means. If I'm wrong then correct me.

your right, i did type alot and i'll jsut say i was sleepy.

Quote:

All I can see happening is that a lot of people who grind titles will get the first two ranks on all their characters. If the non-stat titles remain character based, then the title grinders will have all their characters 2 titles away from KoaBD 2. If only the combat-stat titles get changed, they will have all their characters 4 titles away from KoaBD.

sorry i don't follow,i am tired tho.really.

single based: 4 north titles= 4 titles 1 away form KoaBD + 2 (SS,LB)=1 char 6 titles
Account based: 4 titles= 4 tittles 1 away form KoaBD per Char. + 2 (SS,LB) = 6 titles done by 1 char which all chars get credit for. meaning KoaBD r1 is the default title.

prob compltely out form what you said, again sorry.

Quote:

So if your looking, you will see a lot more characters with KoaBD 1 or 2 running around and those few people that care now will stop caring about the lower ranks.

/agreed but i worked hard to get titles, and im near r2, it'll just be given to most new chars that join. (that said i havent really tried for titles since june:S)

Since i first posted in this thread i realised today that i am kind of in the same boat, but for the treasure hunter should be account wide.
i agreed with it as i tought it was just the same work,same amount of keys ran etc. didnt think it would hurt anyone. but i realise now that it would devalue it a bit imo.

that said i can kinda feel i'm in your boots, and grinding one char is just like grinded on others,same amount of time but differant chars can work together on it.

the only differance was that i had obtained some of the grind based titles which if i favored the new options it would mean one of these:

1)alot of people had the title and it felt a bit devalued
or
2)I had to grind a bit more for somthing iused to have if higher max cap.

but also the KoaBD alot easier to get, + i also tought about grinding LB on 2 other chars for a bit if ihad free time.

so consider me
/semi signed
i would like to see it on a tril of somesort first.

Suicidal Eddy · Oct 31, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

/signed

I'm praying to Dwayna that some day this update will exist. So tedious and makes me not even want to try such titles because it will only be seen one one character which is 1/8 of my playing time.

"Oh well i have the Incorrigible Ale-Hound title on my other character"

Boo!

pumpkin pie · Oct 31, 2007, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

1 - Please backup this 4 million players number. All I'm aware of is ANET announcing 4 million copies sold across the 3 chapters, without saying how many were merged. If you have any better information please show it.

2 - How can you be certain of how a player feels about this when they haven't said anything either way ?
What about the people who don't know about this thread because they don't visit guru at all ?

True. But I was bringing it up to show that the titles don't hold much value as it is because most people don't care. And since the titles don't hold much value now, they won't be devalued much.

And your supporting data is what exactly ?

My supporting data is the number of people who agree to your proposal.

Until you get enough signature to back you up, the title system will stay as it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilateralrope

True. But I was bringing it up to show that the titles don't hold much value as it is because most people don't care. And since the titles don't hold much value now, they won't be devalued much.

1) if you think title isn't of much value, why do you need them to be on all your characters?

2) I do not mind other players' title does not equal those title being of not much value, they are of value to the players who have earn them, except you, maybe. I value all the title I earn. Your proposal is devaluing the max title that I have spent time earning. Do you think that is fair? Just because you want a short cut for your other characters, everyone else have to have their title devalued?

wu is me · Oct 31, 2007, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

My supporting data is the number of people who agree to your proposal.

Until you get enough signature to back you up, the title system will stay as it is.

1) if you think title isn't of much value, why do you need them to be on all your characters?

2) I do not mind other players' title does not equal those title being of not much value, they are of value to the players who have earn them, except you, maybe. I value all the title I earn. Your proposal is devaluing the max title that I have spent time earning. Do you think that is fair? Just because you want a short cut for your other characters, everyone else have to have their title devalued?

omfg you can't possibly be that naïve. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so just because people havent said “yes” doesn’t mean they’ll say “no”. How could you accuse people of making unfounded statements and then come out with tripe like that?

And as for your questions… Bilateral’s op is very good, but Bilateral’s rebuttals…well I don’t know. But heres my take:
I think titles ARE of value(although what I think bilateral was referring to was the fact that people generally don’t take them into consideration when forming pugs)
Titles govern the way we play the game! (ive said this b4) nobody would go for drunktard without the title!
Right now nobody would drink beer on more than one character, but if the title were made acct based… people would! And I(that’s my opinion not necessarily yours) say that’s a good thing(same applies for all the activity based titles)
In a similar way, ppl would be less inclined to play more than one character if the other grind based titles.

so heres what really matters: Do people perfer to identify themselves with ONE profession, or enjoy a MULTITUDE of professions? If you like playing multiple characters ( and don’t have all the time in the world ) then implementing this proposal is one step in that direction. That’s the sole purpose of the proposal.

pumpkin pie · Oct 31, 2007, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by wu is me

omfg you can't possibly be that naïve. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so just because people havent said “yes” doesn’t mean they’ll say “no”. How could you accuse people of making unfounded statements and then come out with tripe like that?

I agree out of the 4 millions (game sold), the likelihood that their owner who did not say yes to this thread will say yes is 50/50. THEIR ANSWER CAN as easily be a NO. This thing can go both way. But I am not the one petitioning, until the petitioner gets the required amount of signature,

thing stays the same, that's how things are.

PS:
NO, it will not make player(s) with multiple professions have better experience :P I have one of each profession and I don't want the short cut. I buy extra character slots so I can enjoy the game all over again with different professions, planning to have the opposite sex of all those character as well, so thank you for not spoiling it. :P

got life: don't read 19 pages of nonsense and don't play computer game lol :P

for post #371, nope, don't like it. But if somehow anet decide to change it, I don't mind either :P still prefer the way it is now.

Lord Hares · Oct 31, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

/signed
why ?
cause i got life and don't see the point to spend time & money to make same title over and over

i'm sure noone have ALL max title so you already have challenge while waiting gw2

P.S : read 19 pages omg so long ^^

wu is me · Oct 31, 2007, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

PS:
NO, it will not make player(s) with multiple professions have better experience :P I have one of each profession and I don't want the short cut. I buy extra character slots so I can enjoy the game all over again with different professions, planning to have the opposite sex of all those character as well, so thank you for not spoiling it. :P

got life: don't read 19 pages of nonsense and don't play computer game lol :P

If you've heard all the reasons and you understand the reasoning behind the proposal( not every 1 does -______________- ) , and still don't like it, then thats your opinion, and i don't think anybody in the thread should object to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Hares

read 19 pages omg so long ^^

lol if you read one page u've read em all =p (esp the opening)

lyra_song · Oct 31, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by wu is me

If you've heard all the reasons and you understand the reasoning behind the proposal( not every 1 does -______________- ) , and still don't like it, then thats your opinion, and i don't think anybody in the thread should object to that.

Some people have already said that if you object, then you obviously dont understand.

lyra_song · Oct 31, 2007, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Ill go through the list of all the title tracks and my opinion of it.

Currently account based:
Champion -
Gamer -
Gladiator -
Hero -
Commander -
-All titles which are available through PvP should always be account based because it is a measure of that specific player's skill, not their character. Also PvP characters are rerolled often, which would make erase titles if they were character based, and the player's own skill is not erased even if he deletes a character, making such titles useless if they were so. Although imo, there should be CLASS-SPECIFIC titles, so your rank as a warrior is not the same as your rank as a monk, but still account based.

Lucky -
Unlucky -
-These titles are based on random things. Lockpicks breaking, games of chance, item effects. I think if this was character based, it would be unfair because it forces you to play only your luckier characters.

Currently character based:

Drunkard - based on how much a specific character has consumed. I dont know how you can make an account drunk....since the drunk effect only affects that character at that time. If you switch characters, are you still affected by drunkeness? Answer is no. Does it even continue if you zone?

Survivor - char based only. OP doesnt want this changed. I agree. Account based is completely not applicable.
Defender of Ascalon - char based only. OP doesnt want this changed. I agree. Account based is completely not applicable.

Sweet Tooth - based on how much a specific character has consumed. I dont know how you can make an account sugar rush....since the sugar rush effect only affects that character at that time. If you switch characters, are you still affected by sugar rush? Answer is no. Does it even continue if you zone?

Treasure Hunter - based on how many chests a specific char has opened. At the same time, your character has to GET to the chest. This is very much a character only title since it involves that specific character's actions.

Wisdom - based on how many items a specific char has IDed. This title i would like to be account based. Simply because, when you ID and unlock new weapon mods and runes, it benefits the WHOLE account, not just that character. If you're a warrior and unlock an elementalist rune, you can get the elementalist rune in pvp for your whole account. IDing benefits the whole account also in that, id'ed items can be traded between characters PvP or PvE chars. If you ID with one character, giving to another character doesn't invalidate the ID of the mods. Because of these reasons, an ID based title should be account based.

Cartographer + legendary - based on where a specific char has been. Account based is completely not applicable.

Guardian/Protector + legendary - based on missions specific char has beaten. Account based is completely not applicable.

Skill Hunter + legendary - based on elite skills captured by specific char. Although, one could argue, using the same logic direction with IDing, that skill hunter affects the whole account in that it unlocks elites for the whole account, giving access to all characters as well as heroes if they have the class and proper tome. However since it STILL involves speficically finding a boss with a character, it should remain character based.

Vanquisher + legendary - based on areas vanquised by specific char. Account based is completely not applicable.

NOW....heres the ones we're really arguing about.

Lightbringer - Linked to 3 PvE only skills. Can only level up in PvE. You only begin earning LB points after a certain point in Nightfall. Making this account based is not applicable. What if your character was based from Cantha, and only started Cantha. Why would he have rank in Lightbringer when he can't even access the person to gain those skills, nor can he farm for lightbringer points. The title would not benefit him at all, until he reaches the areas in Nightfall where lightbringer is useful. If you choose to not even go to Nightfall (my Mesmer has never been to Nightfall for example), why should you have a title specifically only affecting and relating to the end areas of a that the character has never even been to? Even though raising Lightbringer rank up makes your skills more powerful, There is a cap to it, and after that, you cannot be better than anyone else who has also maxed it.

Sunspear - Linked to 11 PvE skills. Can only level up in PvE. You earn SS points only in Nightfall. Theres no part of the SS rank that affects your whole account or multiple characters at all (it doesnt even affect your heroes! unlike LB). SS is not really a grind title. I compare it to the "Master of The North" title. It shows how far you are in the game, and really becomes a null rank after you get to Lightbringer, because after a certain rank, you can't use certain bounties and have to move to stronger enemies. Also, quest progression requires certain rank, making this require you to do quests (quests are grinds?). The SS rank may as well be called "Master of Nightfall". Making this account based doesn't make any sense, since it would allow brand new made Nightfall characters instant access to powerful skills without properly progressing through Nightfall. And you can't compare it to say...gaining elites through tomes, since those attributes are directly correlated to your character's level, being a lvl 5 with searing flames means nothing, compared to a low level character with a SS skill at max SS points. None of the OP's reasons can justify changing this title to account based, since it would screw up a lot of natural flows in the game.

Asura -
Deldrimor -
Ebon Vanguard -
Norn -
-Ill take all of these together since they are all the same essentially. Same basic idea above. None of these titles benefit accounts, none of them can make you better since they are capped at a limit. They progress NATURALLY through normal gameplay.
At certain levels you gain access to specific things.
1 - basic effect
2 - none
3 - consumables
4 - weaponsmiths
5 - armor
This is analgous same as creating a map with 5 outposts in it, and stronger and stronger enemies between each outpost. If you want armor, you need to get to the final outpost, requiring you to kill a lot of enemies to get there. Being title based doesn't mean that the benefit of having access should be shared by all characters, since those other characters did not progress to those points of the game.

Master of The North - ugh...how can this even be account based?

Allegiance (Kurzick) -
Allegiance (Luxon) -
-These two are the complex ones. The screwed up ones. Kurz/Lux factions are required to progress in PvE. It also affects your guild's faction total directly. Its can be a measure of your PvP skill also because at the same time, you can use a PvP char to gain that faction, a PvP char who has never stepped foot in PvE. Heck...you can use a character who has never even been to Cantha and still do Alliance Battles using your Guild Hall. As such, these titles have interconnected account and character and benefit multiple characters, and points can be gained through both PvP and PvE. But...they also affect PvE skills ,as an afterthought, which means there is a maximum limit to the rank's effects. HOWEVER...there is a minimum lvl 20 requirement to gain the PvE skills in the first place, which makes sure a noob lvl 1 rit wont have access to a fully maxed out Summon spirits. Imo this title has to stay account based, because it intertwines too many things account, pvp, as well as pve progress and pve skills to be not account based.

Sleeper Service · Oct 31, 2007, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Drunkard - based on how much a specific character has consumed. I dont know how you can make an account drunk....since the drunk effect only affects that character at that time. If you switch characters, are you still affected by drunkeness? Answer is no. Does it even continue if you zone?

WHO is Affected by the onscreen effect? YOU the PLAYER. WHO clicks on the drinks every minute? YOU the PLAYER. WHO spends the gold required?
ill give you one guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Sweet Tooth - based on how much a specific character has consumed. I dont know how you can make an account sugar rush....since the sugar rush effect only affects that character at that time. If you switch characters, are you still affected by sugar rush? Answer is no. Does it even continue if you zone?

WHO is Affected by the onscreen effect? YOU the PLAYER. WHO clicks on the candy? YOU the PLAYER. WHO spends the gold required?
ill give you one guess, yes another one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Treasure Hunter - based on how many chests a specific char has opened. At the same time, your character has to GET to the chest. This is very much a character only title since it involves that specific character's actions.

WHO gets to the chest? your neighbour? nope its the PLAYER what toon he used to get there is irrelevant. WHO spends the cash on lockpicks? the toon? is cash character based? nope its ACCOUNT based.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Cartographer + legendary - based on where a specific char has been. Account based is completely not applicable.

The PLAYER has been to those areas, PLAYER. these toons dont walk around on their own you know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Lightbringer - (...)The title would not benefit him at all, until he reaches the areas in Nightfall where lightbringer is useful. (...) There is a cap to it, and after that, you cannot be better than anyone else who has also maxed it.

And so making it account based changes what? you simply no longer have to REPEATEDLY grind a certain section of the game to gain LB points that are in the end only usefull in Endgame areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Sunspear - (...)

There is and issue with SS i agree. A proposed solution to this would be an artificial level cap for those that have not completed the NF game yet. At every primary mission passed the level cap would increase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Asura -
Deldrimor -
Ebon Vanguard -
Norn -
-Ill take all of these together since they are all the same essentially. Same basic idea above. None of these titles benefit accounts, none of them can make you better since they are capped at a limit. They progress NATURALLY through normal gameplay.
At certain levels you gain access to specific things.
1 - basic effect
2 - none
3 - consumables
4 - weaponsmiths
5 - armor
This is analgous same as creating a map with 5 outposts in it, and stronger and stronger enemies between each outpost. If you want armor, you need to get to the final outpost, requiring you to kill a lot of enemies to get there. Being title based doesn't mean that the benefit of having access should be shared by all characters, since those other characters did not progress to those points of the game.

AGAIN we come back to this, its happening already. how can one get this one simple fact through? Consumables can be bought by another char on the same account or off other players, Weapons are the same.

The people who are opposing this should clearly be pushing for removal of storage transferring, and gold transferring between chars. After all Its the TOON that made the cash.

wu is me · Oct 31, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

etcetcetc

oh ffs read the opening....and re-read your own arguments -____-

Please if you don't like it just say you don't like it...

Don't make some insane argument that contradicts itself every two sentences, and clearly shows that you have not read the proposal properly, nor properly thought out your own reasoning.

edit: thanks sleeper for explaining =P, ive had to say the same crap too many times =.=

And lemme clarify: Cartographer/Vanquisher/skill hunter/guardian are NOT titles that were suggested for account based for a number of reasons: roleplay(yes that was actually considered) if more than 1 character has the title, it cannot be easily consolidated to acct based, and it would not make sense, since, a character without access to a particular area should not b able to proclaim s/he's explored that area.

bilateralrope · Oct 31, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

Yes,But do you really need those 5 to have the title maxed? wouldn't R5 be good?

I don't like having to grind for stats. Especially when I go onto another character and have to grind the sats up again.

Quote:

a nice portion of GW can be C-Spaced,

missions,explorables so forth, so with 8 chars goign through a campaign at roughly same time (jsut created em all) it does seem grinding to me,[/quote]
At least the c-spacing through missions has scenery changes. Farming your SS/LB points is c-spacing in the same area, against the same mobs which don't pose a threat to wurms.

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alot of the time i'm on the internet,c-spacing (not sure if thats the proper word, shortcut keys for clostet target + attack) with unruned heros+ henchmen.btw thats form kamadan->Gate of pain, havent tried GoM yet tho nor any others with the new chars. wheres the skill there?

At the very least there is some skill in hero skill selection, even if it is just looking up builds. Though I feel that a lot of your bordem is coming from you doing 8 characters at once, with the rest coming from NF simply being a rather boring campaign.

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not sure what the average players skill level is, may be around mine,less or greater.
in HM i'm not sure if they are nessicary but they are very helpful,nearly a must maybe, dont need to be maxed tho.

Without knowing the average players skill, I can't see how we can be sure about it.

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Most of the replies said titles didn't matter in pugs?
reason coudl be all titles on main,that char was an alt.
some peopel don't collect titles but are still skilled etc.

And with this change if you put in the work, you would get the benefits on all your characters.

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But if i work hard for a week or 2 for a title what ever it may be wouldn't you feel sad that alot more popel have it? the cartographer thread is a nice example about how rare a title used be and how popular it is currently and thus how its value decreased for the holder.http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10213510

Yes, the cartographer title lost a lot of value in that persons eyes because the work was reduced. But with the grind titles ANET can increase the points per rank, thus keeping the work the same for players with x characters. So what multiplier would you want to see on the ranks ?

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rank 3 impressed me greatly but then i saw alot more as time passed by..alot more...also cartographer

when i first saw maxed sunspear on the X2 weekend i was like woah,nice but as time moved on it began to seem less, this is only 1 char per account more or less, if everyone had it as there newbie default title for there char it would seem worthless to me.

The title is becoming less valuable because more people have it ?

Over time I can't see this being avoided. Though if ANET increases the points per rank enough, I'd expect there to be a short period where less people are wearing the title.

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yes that is nice but why should i be penalised because i have a few chars, when i never intended or wanted to get them passed a small rank in the title, not maxing them out. as i want to complete all campaign with a few chars.

Yes, that is an issue with the sliding multiplier. Even if ANET makes it so that characters don't count for title x till they reach point y (eg, you don't count to Norn till you enter GW:EN) some people will get disadvantaged by it. Though a constant multiplier will hurt all the single character people.

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sorry i don't follow,i am tired tho.really.

These titles effect combat stats - 4 GW:EN titles, SS/LB - 6 titles
Treasure hunter and Wisdom effect non-combat stats - 2 titles, making it 8
Sweet Tooth and drunkard then att another 2 more, bringing us to 10.

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1)alot of people had the title and it felt a bit devalued
or
2)I had to grind a bit more for somthing iused to have if higher max cap.

Even with the sliding multiplier only effecting characters past a certain point there will be some people hit by one of these options. But the titles are going to lose value over time.

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i would like to see it on a tril of somesort first.

A trail run could be useful to see, though a bit more complex to implement because during the trial ANET would need to track the per character value while also having the total value recorded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

My supporting data is the number of people who agree to your proposal.

Until you get enough signature to back you up, the title system will stay as it is.

Yes, unless I can get enough support ANET won't implement this idea. Going through this thread and using ctrl-f, I find that "/signed" has been placed into 55 separate posts. "/notsigned" has is only in 7 posts. I would of missed any alternate spellings (eg "/not signed", which is in at least one post), and I could be one or two off because I miscounted.

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1) if you think title isn't of much value, why do you need them to be on all your characters?

I was talking about KoaBD there, which I don't care about. However I do care about the stat boosts from other titles, which lose value as people obtain them anyway.

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2) I do not mind other players' title does not equal those title being of not much value, they are of value to the players who have earn them, except you, maybe. I value all the title I earn. Your proposal is devaluing the max title that I have spent time earning. Do you think that is fair? Just because you want a short cut for your other characters, everyone else have to have their title devalued?

Would it be devalued if ANET also increased the time required per rank so that I still do the same amount of work to max it out on my 7 characters ?

How many characters do you have the titles across ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

I agree out of the 4 millions (game sold), the likelihood that their owner who did not say yes to this thread will say yes is 50/50. THEIR ANSWER CAN as easily be a NO. This thing can go both way. But I am not the one petitioning, until the petitioner gets the required amount of signature,

thing stays the same, that's how things are.

So what should we assume the position of the non-respondents is ?

- They don't want the change.
- They want it.
- They don't care.
- Their ratio of approval to non approval is similar to what is displayed in the thread.

Taking ANETs 4 million sales figure. Lets assume that all sales were 3 copies being merged into the one account, giving us over a million accounts*. Lets assume that we only have 10%* of that number of active players due to people quitting and/or having multiple accounts. We still have over 100'000 accounts. So that means that unless one suggestion gets over 1000 different replies, the first option leaves us with a <1% approval rating, the second gives a >99% approval rating. So the first two options don't look reasonable to me.

*In both these cases I'm producing a lower number than what I feel is believable because it weakens my argument to have the lower numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Although imo, there should be CLASS-SPECIFIC titles, so your rank as a warrior is not the same as your rank as a monk, but still account based.

I'm not a PvP player, but this sounds like it could do with its own thread.

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Drunkard - based on how much a specific character has consumed. I dont know how you can make an account drunk....since the drunk effect only affects that character at that time. If you switch characters, are you still affected by drunkeness? Answer is no. Does it even continue if you zone?

Sweet Tooth - based on how much a specific character has consumed. I dont know how you can make an account sugar rush....since the sugar rush effect only affects that character at that time. If you switch characters, are you still affected by sugar rush? Answer is no. Does it even continue if you zone?

But if you don't touch them for months then you also don't see any effect. So why should the title remain ?
Though I don't really care much about these ones.

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Treasure Hunter - based on how many chests a specific char has opened. At the same time, your character has to GET to the chest. This is very much a character only title since it involves that specific character's actions.

True. But its effects are greater per rank than Lucky, which is account based.

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Lightbringer - Linked to 3 PvE only skills. Can only level up in PvE. You only begin earning LB points after a certain point in Nightfall.

So make it a title that can't be displayed till you reach that point in NF

Also the common way of maxing SS and LB is in wurms, which only differ depending on the weapon your holding. So not only is it a boring area, changing classes don't change them much, only your energy regen. Casters ride identical wurms every single time.

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Making this account based doesn't make any sense, since it would allow brand new made Nightfall characters instant access to powerful skills without properly progressing through Nightfall.

Why is this a bad thing ?
Especially with the Factions PvE only skills. Sure they only work on lvl 20 characters, but who stays below level 20 for any length of time ?

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-Ill take all of these together since they are all the same essentially. Same basic idea above. None of these titles benefit accounts, none of them can make you better since they are capped at a limit. They progress NATURALLY through normal gameplay.

Until you have done everything and are having to repeat tasks.

Consumables and weapon-smiths are irrelevant since you could always craft with one character and move across. Armor is a vanity item, and is also ignored.

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At certain levels you gain access to specific things.
1 - basic effect
This is analgous same as creating a map with 5 outposts in it, and stronger and stronger enemies between each outpost. If you want armor, you need to get to the final outpost, requiring you to kill a lot of enemies to get there. Being title based doesn't mean that the benefit of having access should be shared by all characters, since those other characters did not progress to those points of the game.

In that analogy, the rep titles are asking for you to fight all the enemies between the outposts after you killed them all once, and someone put them back.

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Allegiance (Kurzick) -
Allegiance (Luxon) -
-These two are the complex ones. The screwed up ones.

I'd say that them being PvP titles overrules any other issues. Though making them character based would hurt my arguments a bit.

lyra_song · Nov 01, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

FYI, i had the OP in another tab as i typed my long post earlier today...I understand your position perfectly. It's not even that i don't like it. I just don't think its justifiable to support.

I really think the big difference here is that I see each character in the game as its own entity, its own personality and storyline, and exists in the game and interacts within the game. I see playing through the game as developing that character, building her up, making her more powerful, gaining weapons and perhaps having help from her "family" (ie: other characters who share storage).

Its not a repeated task, since each character is doing it for the FIRST TIME. Thats how I see it.

I dont care how many characters you have. I dont care how many times you've done it before. Each character is a new character. Its not an extension of an existing character.

I've played grindy games (like Maplestory/Lineage2/Rappelz/Ragnarok/Ragnarok2) this is NOT grindy.

All the "grinds" are secondary to actually playing the game. The so called grind titles build themselves up through naturally playing the game, the way the game is designed (granted it takes tweaks to get the pace just right). There is no need to change it since it already works.

The change proposed by the OP is for convenience. There is no broken game mechanic, there is no exploit, there is no imbalance.

Gaining SS -> Do your quests, kill bad guys along the way. This title increases through normal gameplay.
Gaining LB -> Do quests, kill bad guys. This one isnt even required.
GWEN Titles -> Kill bad guys, do quests, do dungeons. This title increases through normal gameplay.

I will reiterate. Normal Gameplay.

Isn't that what this game is all about? Go from Point A to Point B. Kill stuff. Talk to someone. Bring someone something. Avoid something. Kill more stuff. Stand here and keep ____ from dying.

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Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

WHO is Affected by the onscreen effect? YOU the PLAYER. WHO clicks on the drinks every minute? YOU the PLAYER. WHO spends the gold required?
ill give you one guess.

Drunkeness doesnt affect players if they dont want it to. It only affects the character. The characters starts slurring and spouting random things, and also starts to do random emotes.

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WHO is Affected by the onscreen effect? YOU the PLAYER. WHO clicks on the candy? YOU the PLAYER. WHO spends the gold required?
ill give you one guess, yes another one.

You are actually saying that sugar rush affects you, the person? The character in game runs faster. Not you.

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WHO gets to the chest? your neighbour? nope its the PLAYER what toon he used to get there is irrelevant. WHO spends the cash on lockpicks? the toon? is cash character based? nope its ACCOUNT based.

So you are telling me, YOU, the player, you actually traveresed the game, and opened the chest. The discovery for each toon is different. The spawn of each chest is different for each character.

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The PLAYER has been to those areas, PLAYER. these toons dont walk around on their own you know.

You've never been there. You played a character who is in this virtual space.

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And so making it account based changes what? you simply no longer have to REPEATEDLY grind a certain section of the game to gain LB points that are in the end only usefull in Endgame areas.

Im sorry. But you dont have to grind LB points, EVER. I've beaten the domains without the effect on (i forgot i had the rebel yell effect on...oops). You dont need Lightbringer Gaze if you dont want want it.

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There is and issue with SS i agree. A proposed solution to this would be an artificial level cap for those that have not completed the NF game yet. At every primary mission passed the level cap would increase.

But you miss the point of the areas where they tell you to "Gain SS rank ___".

Its to give you a choice of how you want to progress the storyline. You can develop specific quests trees in any order you want or kill monsters. Its the same reason for the 10,000 factions requirement.

They could have easily have had NO SS rank or 10,000 faction requirement altogether and instead added those side quests are part of the primary quest, forcing you into a more linear path, rather than a branching path and removing any choice you have altogether.

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AGAIN we come back to this, its happening already. how can one get this one simple fact through? Consumables can be bought by another char on the same account or off other players, Weapons are the same.

Actually i bought my first chaos axe for my warrior before my warrior ascended, before i had access to FoW. Weapon Crafting/Consumables being accessible through secondary means doesn't negate the fact that your character still needs to rank up in order gain access FOR THEM.

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The people who are opposing this should clearly be pushing for removal of storage transferring, and gold transferring between chars. After all Its the TOON that made the cash.

Storage in Guild Wars is actually very different from other MMORPGS, since we do not have servers, we aren't locked in place.

Your counter-argument stems from "who bought it in the first place" or "who gained the gold", arguing that you the player is the one affected. But who is using it? Who is benefitting? Specific characters benefit specifically for those instances when those characters are in use.

Consumables can only be used by one character at a time. It is not an account based effect. Weapons only affect the character using it (using Vamp -1 as an example).

=============

Some might say its hypocritical to say that a player is affected by PvP, and the character is affected in PvE, since its both the player thats controlling both instances.

However, in the static and linear world of GW PvE, the players choices are irrelevant to the outcome of the story in the end. If you fail, the game doesn't end. The game doesnt remember your failure. You can start back where you began and try again.

PvP is quite different, the context and content of PvP is directly controlled and affected by the player and other players in the instance. The outcome of each match hinges severely on the PLAYER, not the character. If you fail, theres no do-overs. Thats it, YOU lost, regardless of your character, you failed.

That is why i consider PvE based titles as character based and not player/account based titles.

=============

I might change my mine on the Treasure hunter title. Yes treasure chests do affect lucky and the unlucky title.

Bilateral Rope - Kurzick / Luxon PvE skills relying on Kurzick/Luxon allegiance is STUPID, imo. I don't know, maybe it should have its own title track for the skill effect attribute. Like i said, its the complicated one.

Sleeper Service · Nov 01, 2007, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

(...)
Drunkeness doesnt affect players if they dont want it to. It only affects the character. The characters starts slurring and spouting random things, and also starts to do random emotes.

You are actually saying that sugar rush affects you, the person? The character in game runs faster. Not you.

I dunno are you deliberately missing the point? Toons do not have a "life" other than what we make them do, they dont go on binges on their own or eat candy on their own, they do not FEEL this effect or spend the TIME required to gain this effect: its the player.

now we again come to the fraction of the playerbase that no matter what wants to identify with their toons and act as if they well and truly exist and thats fine be me just WHY IMPOSE THIS GAMEPLAY ON THE REST. Christ you dont need a little box to tell you that your toon (or you in GW...whatever) is a Holy Lightbringer drunkard that slays gods, if thats what you want it to be then so be it!

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Originally Posted by lyra_song

So you are telling me, YOU, the player, you actually traveresed the game, and opened the chest. The discovery for each toon is different. The spawn of each chest is different for each character.

You've never been there. You played a character who is in this virtual space.

what? I AM the PLAYER! when i go out in real life in a grey T-shirt to buy a can of "Coke" does it really matter if i go and do that the next day in a blue sweater? Will my route be different? will the product i buy suddenly become "Cronk"?

Yes i play a virtual toon in a virtual space that goes and does virtual things...but ME sir. I am NOT VIRTUAL, my actions are NOT virtual and my time is not virtual either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Im sorry. But you dont have to grind LB points, EVER. I've beaten the domains without the effect on (i forgot i had the rebel yell effect on...oops). You dont need Lightbringer Gaze if you dont want want it.

if you dont need it then whats the problem. i never said you needed it either.

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Originally Posted by lyra_song

But you miss the point of the areas where they tell you to "Gain SS rank ___".

Its to give you a choice of how you want to progress the storyline. You can develop specific quests trees in any order you want or kill monsters. Its the same reason for the 10,000 factions requirement.

They could have easily have had NO SS rank or 10,000 faction requirement altogether and instead added those side quests are part of the primary quest, forcing you into a more linear path, rather than a branching path and removing any choice you have altogether.

"this gain SS rank" requirement is one of the most annoying things in NF tbh, its not needed either, once a toon has played through NF why force the PLAYER behind to go through that useless charade again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Actually i bought my first chaos axe for my warrior before my warrior ascended, before i had access to FoW. Weapon Crafting/Consumables being accessible through secondary means doesn't negate the fact that your character still needs to rank up in order gain access FOR THEM.

but your warrior could equip this chaos axe and use consumables that were not yet accessible to that toon. only because you had passed on these items from another toon could you do this.

nobody is saying saying "open up the map to all toons" here...

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Storage in Guild Wars is actually very different from other MMORPGS, since we do not have servers, we aren't locked in place.

Your counter-argument stems from "who bought it in the first place" or "who gained the gold", arguing that you the player is the one affected. But who is using it? Who is benefitting? Specific characters benefit specifically for those instances when those characters are in use.

Consumables can only be used by one character at a time. It is not an account based effect. Weapons only affect the character using it (using Vamp -1 as an example).

Im sorry but i've have somehow never managed to play more than one toon at a time. you must have more arms than me. Everything affects one toon at a time...they (again) don't have an existence other than the one which is given to them.

zamial · Nov 01, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

I do not agree.

This will suck the life out of the game for many people. Once you have maxed the KoaBD, Well off to a dif game I go, as there will no longer be a driving force to play this game. It will be beaten and finished. I would like to think that 3 Years from now when I need a break from GW2 that I can boot up the original and unshelf a character and have that "new" feel to it. If this is implemented it will void this factor completely.

Loviatar · Nov 01, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

LETS COMPROMISE

you can display any title any character on the account has accomplished

BUT

it will be a different color from the regular earned title and only the earned benefits affect that character.

example max wisdon/treasure hunter have no beneficial effect on salvage odds/lockpick break odds until those title benefits are earned on that character.

you can flash the title but gain no financial benefit from displaying it